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	<title>Comments on: Table rebuilds</title>
	<atom:link href="http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/2011/09/30/table-rebuilds-2/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/2011/09/30/table-rebuilds-2/</link>
	<description>Just another Oracle weblog</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan Lewis</title>
		<link>http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/2011/09/30/table-rebuilds-2/#comment-41940</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonathan Lewis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Oct 2011 15:17:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/?p=7311#comment-41940</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pavol,

That&#039;s a particularly interesting observation. WHich version was that, and have you seen anything that looks like it might be a patch related to the lock time ?
The manuals suggest running the routine to resyncronize more than once, of course, but I guess you probably did that anyway.For example:
&lt;ol&gt;
Initial load
resynch
rebuild index 1
resynch 
...
validate constraints
resynch
etc..
final resynch&lt;/ol&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pavol,</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a particularly interesting observation. WHich version was that, and have you seen anything that looks like it might be a patch related to the lock time ?<br />
The manuals suggest running the routine to resyncronize more than once, of course, but I guess you probably did that anyway.For example:</p>
<ol>
Initial load<br />
resynch<br />
rebuild index 1<br />
resynch<br />
&#8230;<br />
validate constraints<br />
resynch<br />
etc..<br />
final resynch</ol>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pavol Babel</title>
		<link>http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/2011/09/30/table-rebuilds-2/#comment-41915</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pavol Babel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2011 13:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/?p=7311#comment-41915</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It was our first big investigation in Oracle 8i in &#039;98 or &#039;99 :) I didn&#039;t like that times, &quot;dark age times&quot;, I&#039;m so happy that situation is much bettwer, nowdays. I can read excellent books, excelent blogs (like yours, Tanel&#039;s etc.). So it takes definitely less time to keep myself informed and to use my own tools to watch oracle kernel behaviour.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was our first big investigation in Oracle 8i in &#8217;98 or &#8217;99 :) I didn&#8217;t like that times, &#8220;dark age times&#8221;, I&#8217;m so happy that situation is much bettwer, nowdays. I can read excellent books, excelent blogs (like yours, Tanel&#8217;s etc.). So it takes definitely less time to keep myself informed and to use my own tools to watch oracle kernel behaviour.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pavol Babel</title>
		<link>http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/2011/09/30/table-rebuilds-2/#comment-41914</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pavol Babel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2011 13:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/?p=7311#comment-41914</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jonathan,

yes, undo and redo was huge problem. And the final journal apply was locking table not for minutes, but for few hours (the table was quite haeavily used most of day). However, I have never tried DBMS_REDEFINITION in 11R2 so I don&#039;t know wether things have changed since last try.

Regards
Pavol]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan,</p>
<p>yes, undo and redo was huge problem. And the final journal apply was locking table not for minutes, but for few hours (the table was quite haeavily used most of day). However, I have never tried DBMS_REDEFINITION in 11R2 so I don&#8217;t know wether things have changed since last try.</p>
<p>Regards<br />
Pavol</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan Lewis</title>
		<link>http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/2011/09/30/table-rebuilds-2/#comment-41911</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonathan Lewis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2011 12:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/?p=7311#comment-41911</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pavol,

I would guess that the volume of undo and redo generated was a problem, not to mention the work done in creating new indexes. Nologging operations could help, of course, so long as you backup tablespaces before you do the final switch. Then there&#039;s always the question of how much time it takes for the final bit of journalling to be applied - I&#039;ve seen a couple of reports of the tables being locked for a couple of minutes at that step (though I&#039;ve not been able to reproduce the problem, I think it&#039;s only one that&#039;s likely to happen at large volumes and high throughput.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pavol,</p>
<p>I would guess that the volume of undo and redo generated was a problem, not to mention the work done in creating new indexes. Nologging operations could help, of course, so long as you backup tablespaces before you do the final switch. Then there&#8217;s always the question of how much time it takes for the final bit of journalling to be applied &#8211; I&#8217;ve seen a couple of reports of the tables being locked for a couple of minutes at that step (though I&#8217;ve not been able to reproduce the problem, I think it&#8217;s only one that&#8217;s likely to happen at large volumes and high throughput.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan Lewis</title>
		<link>http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/2011/09/30/table-rebuilds-2/#comment-41910</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonathan Lewis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2011 12:04:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/?p=7311#comment-41910</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pavol,

Thanks for the comment - it&#039;s one I should have raised myself (and one I highlighted, I think in &lt;em&gt;Practical Oracle 8i&lt;/em&gt;) that the exchange may be faster with unique (or PK) constraints in place  if you choose the &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;without validation&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt; option.

For those who never bought a copy, here&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/17_partition_problems.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;a link to an article &lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;on my old website explaining the anomaly. (The link is to a page introducing a Word document, and contains an addedum to that document.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pavol,</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment &#8211; it&#8217;s one I should have raised myself (and one I highlighted, I think in <em>Practical Oracle 8i</em>) that the exchange may be faster with unique (or PK) constraints in place  if you choose the <em><strong>without validation</strong></em> option.</p>
<p>For those who never bought a copy, here&#8217;s <a href="http://www.jlcomp.demon.co.uk/17_partition_problems.html" rel="nofollow"><em><strong>a link to an article </strong></em></a>on my old website explaining the anomaly. (The link is to a page introducing a Word document, and contains an addedum to that document.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pavol Babel</title>
		<link>http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/2011/09/30/table-rebuilds-2/#comment-41909</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pavol Babel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2011 11:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/?p=7311#comment-41909</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jonathan,

we have used that approach several times and it worked. The only problem is that the ALTER TABLE EXECHANGE (SUB)PARTITION still does not work with primary key/unique constraints in sufficient manner (one have to use WITH VALIADATION SYNTAX when PK takes place). It is quite unbelievable, since the problem was not fixed by Oracle Development since Oracle 8.
So for such a large table (2TB), the process could take some time. But I would still favour it instead of DBMS_REDEFINITION.

Regards
Pavol]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan,</p>
<p>we have used that approach several times and it worked. The only problem is that the ALTER TABLE EXECHANGE (SUB)PARTITION still does not work with primary key/unique constraints in sufficient manner (one have to use WITH VALIADATION SYNTAX when PK takes place). It is quite unbelievable, since the problem was not fixed by Oracle Development since Oracle 8.<br />
So for such a large table (2TB), the process could take some time. But I would still favour it instead of DBMS_REDEFINITION.</p>
<p>Regards<br />
Pavol</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Pavol Babel</title>
		<link>http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/2011/09/30/table-rebuilds-2/#comment-41908</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pavol Babel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Oct 2011 11:39:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/?p=7311#comment-41908</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[for table with 2TB? We tried to use DBMS_REDEFINITION for large data (cca 500GB) and it wrecked...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>for table with 2TB? We tried to use DBMS_REDEFINITION for large data (cca 500GB) and it wrecked&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rao</title>
		<link>http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/2011/09/30/table-rebuilds-2/#comment-41899</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Rao]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/?p=7311#comment-41899</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Mr Lewis, I am goin to try that approach. step by step. I think that may work
Regards,
RP]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Mr Lewis, I am goin to try that approach. step by step. I think that may work<br />
Regards,<br />
RP</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jonathan Lewis</title>
		<link>http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/2011/09/30/table-rebuilds-2/#comment-41896</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jonathan Lewis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2011 12:51:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/?p=7311#comment-41896</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Flado,
That&#039;s not a nitpick - thanks for pointing out the error.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Flado,<br />
That&#8217;s not a nitpick &#8211; thanks for pointing out the error.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Flado</title>
		<link>http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/2011/09/30/table-rebuilds-2/#comment-41895</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Flado]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2011 12:32:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jonathanlewis.wordpress.com/?p=7311#comment-41895</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sorry about the nitpick, but I got a bit confused by &quot;the former&quot; and &quot;the latter&quot; cases - I think they need to swap places. &quot;The former&quot; (the first-mentioned) case is the one where &quot;new partitions should be hash partitioned&quot;, and that&#039;s what your process appears to accomplish, unless I got irreparably confused.
Cheers,
Flado]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry about the nitpick, but I got a bit confused by &#8220;the former&#8221; and &#8220;the latter&#8221; cases &#8211; I think they need to swap places. &#8220;The former&#8221; (the first-mentioned) case is the one where &#8220;new partitions should be hash partitioned&#8221;, and that&#8217;s what your process appears to accomplish, unless I got irreparably confused.<br />
Cheers,<br />
Flado</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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